>> that is our broadcast for this thursday night, with our thanks for being with us. you can catch me again tomorrow morning at 10 am eastern on msnbc reports and i look forward to joining you here for the 11th hour again tomorrow night. on behalf of all of my colleagues at the networks of nbc news, good night. >> tonight on all in. >> i want to thank the people of texas because we won on a landslide, it wasn't even close. >> the big lie spreading to states trump won, tonight the push for an audit in texas, and why craig abbott is not maga and of. then -- >> americans need someone who will stand for them, who will be their voice here at the peoples house. >> the populist congresswoman used for -- plus. >> republicans are united in

opposition to raising the debt ceiling as republicans hold the debt ceiling hostage, meet the red state democrat who calls it all a ridiculous effing dance. >> we go through this dance all the time, it's a dance that is dangerous. >> senator of montana joins me now, when all in starts right now. >> good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes, we have big breaking news off the top, just a few minutes ago we have learned that the january 6th select committee, the bipartisan committee tasked with investigating exactly what happened, when a mob of trump riders went into the capital, has issued for subpoena, including one for former trump chief of staff mark meadows, and for steve bannon. that is a huge development, we will be covering in-depth because it shows the committee looking into whatever exactly the president and his advisers

were planning for that day although we should also say, at a certain level we already know, donald trump wanted to overturn the election. for a man with a little in the way of consistency has been consistent about that. anyone that didn't want to do that is a smart enemy of his. in fact yesterday a very funny thing happened amidst new site goal dominated by the dams in disarray cycle, donald trump from his exile at his golf house in new jersey started issuing statements, like he did on twitter before he got booted, they don't capture the national attention anymore, which is all for the book good, issued statements blasting anyone in the republican party, to remind them that he is still out for blood. and while republicans are not in power now, they have a far easier job of posing rather than governing, they do continue to be entrenched in a pretty brutal civil war, even if you don't see it on the news every night so the statements from trump are all over the

place, they were airing grievances with everyone from ostensible allies like republican senator mike lee and lindsey graham, to perceived enemies like george w. bush, and congresswoman liz cheney. but they'll stem from the same cause, trump's inability to acknowledge he lost the 2020 election. and to that and it is particularly notable that today he is taking a texas republican governor greg abbott, he is calling for the conservative governor to back an election audit in texas. think about that for a second, yes you heard that right, texas. before we go forward, let's just stop and recap the greg abbott record, you know abbott pretty well, governor of the second largest state and union, he is a national figure. i think he's a pretty terrible governor. i think he has bad politics, i don't agree with them, but he's also done a pretty objectively bad job at managing covid in texas. his state has one of the worst death rates in the country, it

lacks behind half the country in vaccinations, and abbott's a man who throws red meat to his base, even when it comes to the expense of health measures. he banned mask mandates in school, like ron desantis did, and he gave the game away on the vaccine question. first, he issued an order banning mandates for any vaccine under emergency use authorization, which all the vaccines were. but then, the fda granted full approval to the pfizer vaccine, and abbott comes in and bans mandates on all covid vaccines, regardless of approval because of course, it's not actually about the science, it's about appealing to the maga crowd that doesn't like the vaccine, that's something that governor abbott does a lot. he of course signed the massively restrictive bold voter restrictive bill, and imposing restrictions on the methods that local governors use last year to make it easier for people to vote. he signed the worst abortion

bill in the country, a facially unconstitutional law forcing pregnancy, after six weeks, in forced by private parties anyone can basically sue anyone else a suspect of unable to an abortion and be rewarded with a 10,000-dollar bounty and just yesterday, he signed a second anti abortion bill, a woman has got under the radar, restricting access to abortion inducing drugs after seven weeks. and all of that witches over the course of a month. by any definition, governor greg abbott i think is one of the most conservative governors in the country, but does he get for it? he gets put on blast by the twice impeached would be authoritarian ex president demanding he support a bill in the special session of the legislature in texas to audit the texas election results. a state which donald trump won by more than five points. now, if you take a step back for a second, there is something darkly comical about all of this. it reminds me of the old quid from the conservative buckley

who run a disastrous campaign for mayor of new york's city in 1965 and a reporter asked buckley what's the first thing he would do if you want, and buckley fired back, demand a recount. not only did donald trump win texas, texas is the state that i keep holding up as an example of that nihilistic toxicity of the big lined voter suppression efforts from republicans, because texas had very high turnout and republicans still did well. so what are you all afraid of? that is not enough, because it is very clear that trump wants a 50 state strategy with audits. he's going one step further and saying the swing states i lost were stolen from me as he did in georgia in arizona, he's pushing that in pennsylvania. no, this is now a full comprehensive undertake, and what he wants to do is say, you cannot trust any election results anywhere.

if he can convince his supporters not to trust any election result, if it's all just rigged and fundamentally on noble then he has effectively destroyed the epidemic foundation of democracy itself, which is what he is trying to bring about. even if that sounds grandiose, it's not hyperbolic to say, that is what he is doing, that's his approach. cultivating state after state, putting the pressure everywhere he can, backing secretaries of state candidates will do his bidding, in order to essentially undermine the entire edifice of trials upon which american democracy or any democracies built, that the people vote and then you count the votes and then there's a winner. if that can't happen, then you have nothing, you have what? sheer will to power. this was his plan all along, of course. listen to then president trump, when you go today, already sowing doubt in the legitimacy of the election that was weeks way. cy >> will you commit to making sure there is a peaceful

transferal of power after the election? >> we're gonna have to see what happens. i've been complaining very strongly about the ballots and the ballots are a disaster -- >> but people are riding, do you commit to making sure that there is a peaceful transfer of power? >> we'll have a very peaceful -- there won't be a transfer, there will be a continuation. >> again, listen to what he says, get rid of the ballots there won't be a transfer, there will be a continuation. here's the thing, governor abbott of texas could just ignore trump, or tell him to get laws were just pretend endeavor happened, guess what? the ultraconservative governor is facing a series of primary challenges from his right, those are the people he is worried about for his political future. and there are just about exactly what you would expect. like former florida congressman alan west who is in texas, he announces campaign by pledging to protect our borders, to ensure texas is for texas, right wing talk show host who

bizarrely opposes contact tracing for covid, of all things, and his website claimed we can't kill an economy over a virus with a 99% survival rate in a state where more than 60,000 people have died from covid. then there's former state senator dan huffing's, he opposes all covid magnets including mandates for covid tests, he rift -- in all circumstances. he's attacking governor abbott funnel cracking down on local mask tyrants. as covid stances, it's earned him one piece of -- rand paul. >> another republican would say, where a mask, stay inside you must do this, you must do that, and a republicans are siding with doctor fauci, he would stand up and say he will side for your freedom. and so the dynamics of the republican party that you're never safe. neither from covid nor primary

challenge. that no amount of maga extremism or filtered for donald trump will never be enough. the future of the entire party looks a lot like what's happening in texas. adam stores is a fighter of the atlantic who's written a pair of both thumbs attempted coup. and the race. and abby lee covers texas time full-time. good to have you both abby livingston, let me start with you first i find all these people coming at abbott fascinating. and not necessarily anticipated. what's going on? >> well he has a primary challenge as you noticed he is trying to bolster his right-wing and his polling, i had to admit i was a little shocked. but republicans specifically abbott, are behaving like they're not afraid of a general election. my connor his name is being thrown around. and we're all expecting the congressman to likely announce

in the near term. so those are not posing credible threats in the way that would alter republicans behavior. and i think one of the things to remember here is the reason so many of these bills have passed is because they had a good election year last year. and so the idea that there is widespread fraud is that it's just not something that's accepted in texas, and i spent more times in texas than i have in recent years, and this is not a common topic of conversation. i don't remember it coming up, and trump's letter kept saying texans think your citizens say. i have just not seen as dense that this is something of a driving concern that mainstream circles in texas. >> no, because they won. they only think it's fraud one day loss, and that's the whole game, here you have them pushing for this audit and what work is this doing to your mind in the context of the big lie? in the context of the folks who? >> abbott has consciously

mishandled the pandemic to prevent exactly this from happening. which is the possibility of losing trump's endorsement. abbott has genuinely seen, he's very conservative but people seem as not a [inaudible] conservative. so he's seen as sort of someone who is holding back. the much crazier people who want his spot. but in the last few months the reason why's approval rating has gone down is because of the covid pandemic in texas, in efforts to prevent a challenge from his rights. and now trump has shown that it actually doesn't matter very much, even if you spend taxpayer money in texas on trying to pay your own wall at the border, trump is -- if you feel psych it he's still going to come for you. so obviously texas isn't a pretty conservative state, so abbott thinks he has nothing to fear from a general election challenge, from a democrat. because the state is so right a senate. and as a result, he is trying

very hard to prevent all republican challenge from getting contraction, even if that cost the people of the state tremendously. >> yes we should say that he is underwater in a private, his approval is at 45%, 55 think the right direction wrong direction. >> and that's unusual. >> and abby, what's striking here is the statement, it's so out of nowhere, no one in texas is talking about. this it doesn't exist on the agenda. it's not front of mind that people are trying to go to, work and trying to not get covid, or whatever the trying to do in texas with their lives. and yet that will have this gravity because this small vanguard, of the small part of the republican base is going to determine abbots political thing. >> yes, and there are several questions about that letter. first of all, i made some calls before the show and i talked to a few folks who are mainstream

republicans in austin, and the important thing to remember is that we are in a special session right now in texas, which is weirdly unusual. there are so many reasons for that. but this is a state government that was for him to only meet briefly every other year. and the legislature is still in session. legislators are exhausted. staffers are exhausted. this is a state where members of congress have been in an insurrection this year. there's been a winter storm that held a lot of texans and every single person in the state practically suffered from. it there's a whole drama around the voting law rights. and then there's the abortion bill follow. and these are exhausted -- the political class is exhausted. so what does that mean? it could mean we might see even more retirements, and more staffers leaving politics of the more mainstream built of the republican party. that was the initial buzz, and when this other came out it was just more like a have, one more thing. the objective in the next month is to get done congressional maps, that is why everyone is obsessed with in the state, in the down-ballot mass. not this sort of conversation.

and on top of that the letter was very esoteric. it used language about the legislation that seemed very familiar. so one of my sources that wonder out loud, it doesn't feel like the former president wore this. who did? >> yeah because there's clearly an agenda here adam serwer whether the endorsement in the secretary state now in pennsylvania that now wants to get basically all voters in a tent, to create some bedrock distrust across everything. for anyone casting a vote that follows donald trump that allows him to contest any election result anywhere. >> i think republicans control the legislation in texas, they don't need any encouragement, they tried to sliced a democratic vote into pieces so that they can continue to control the congressional delegation for the state legislature in texas. but what's happening is that

donald trump is cultivating the idle all edgy that says that the democratic party is not legitimately into -- any election in which democrats win is fraudulent by definition, even if they win more votes because republicans are the only one that can legitimately hold office. and that is true, and that's why this is happening, despite the fact that they won texas, it's the same ideology that led republicans to advise trump that the closure of mike pence, to try and overturn the 220 election, and it's a very dangerous ideology. because it says we are not going to respect the democratic outcome of election that we lose. >> yes if, he did this with the media and they did this before the media which was to cut people off from that chain of trump, if you cut them off with a train of trust with election results then you are just pulling out the [inaudible] space, whoever can seize power

they gets. it adam serwer and abby livingston. think you very much. that breaking news that we mentioned at the top the very first subpoenas that have just been issued by the generous six committee they ought to the president trump's chief and two other trump associates will break down the detail with glenn goldman, next. next. next. and wake up refreshed. the brand i trust is qunol. i've been telling everyone... the secret to great teeth is having healthy gums. crest advanced gum restore. detoxifies below the gumline... and restores by helping heal gums in as little as 7 days. crest. the #1 toothpaste brand in america.

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news out of washington tonight, in just the last hour the january six committee, select committee drop for subpoenas for people either working in or

communicating with the white house in the days leading up to the insurrection. the committee is seeking information from former white house chief of staff mark meadows, former deputy of staff dance casino, former trump advisor steve bannon and former defense department official posh patel. daniel goldman is the lead counsel in the 2019 impeachment, he was a senior adviser and director of investigation for the house intelligence committee, also former federal prosecutor and he joins me now. dan, this is skipping past the request phase, we saw some document requests go, out what is the significance of the four subpoenas to your mind? >> there are several things. the first is, as the committee advised this, week they were going to go directly to subpoena for people, individuals or entities who either have not been cooperative or they don't expect to be cooperative. obviously, these four, they do

not expect to be cooperative, and that likely means litigation. the bigger thing to me, chris, is not so much that they're going straight to subpoenas, it's that they're going straight to the critical witnesses, rather than, in many investigations, where you would start with a lower level people and try to work your way up, and so you would have a better sense of what the rule was of the higher level people. there is no time for that right now, and they are anticipating litigation, so they are between what you would normally do on the back end, you're doing that on the front end so the litigation can play out while they continue to investigate through other entities, other individuals. >> we should say, steve bannon has talked about his role, and basically planning the rally part of january six, he said so in his podcast he was communicating with december trump potentially on other occasions urging him to focus his efforts on january six, and you were quoted as stating on

january 5th 2021 that all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. what is the next step legally, you anticipate here? >> well, all of them, or trump will intervene to file a lawsuit to prevent them from testifying. there is just to be really clear there is absolutely no basis for donald trump or any of these former officials to claim executive privilege, but they will because their objective is not win the litigation, their objective is to delay, and let congress and let this committee run out. steve bannon hasn't -- he has a greater uphill battle because he was not even a government official and he had no executive privilege is. the other three were government officials so in theory, at that time, they could've claimed executive privilege, but it's important to remember, joe biden controls what's is

executive privilege right now, not donald trump, and donald trump is no longer the president, so he can say, as he did, oh, i'm gonna claim executive privilege to preserve the office of the presidency, hey pal, you are no longer in the office of the presidency. what you think about the office of the presidency's irrelevant. >> there are some reporting today that the white house is considering turning over some communications that i guess, they have access to precisely under that rationale. >> well, the white house and the national archives has access to a lot of communication from white house officials and donald trump is threatening to intervene, to file a lawsuit to prevent the national archives from producing sivs documents to the select committee and he's claiming executive privilege will came out today's of the biden administration is likely, reportedly, likely to not claim executive privilege over those documents, to allow them to go

to the select committee, and ultimately the current administration is the one that preserves executive privilege. what we're gonna see is a completely brand new, created out of whole cloth legal siri that has no basis in the law and that is just designed to get the district court, the appeals court and potentially the supreme court to have to rule on it which would run out the clock. i hope the judiciary has learned its lesson and they will move quickly. >> yes, that is the big thing, that is the lesson we learned, we have learned this has been donald trump's entire career, keep people tied up in the courts until you can make a getaway. but this is a very, this is a kind of bold and aggressive move by the committee and it augurs well for their posture at least. dan goldman, thank you so much for joining us at the last-minute. >> my pleasure, chris. >> republican congress woman made away my -- name for herself when she cut and add to carry her glock to

congress, when she constructed the shrine-like setup as her background for committee hearing in february, but if you think her gun fanaticism will come to define her time in office there is another competing theme, that is her possible misuse of campaign funds. why the colorado congresswoman is in the hot water with the fcc, next. fcc, next.

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countries on the fate of the earth. precisely one of them has an elective leader that publicly identifies as a western stock conservative. his name is viktor orban, he's the prime minister of hungry. what does viktor moran believe? years ago his views would've been moderate and conventional, he thinks families are the most important them banks. he thinks countries need borders. forcing these things out loud, orban has been vilified. >> we're so mad at viktor orban. that's the fox news host an air to a frozen dinner company fortune. took a field trip to all places,

hungry. he spent the week they're broadcasting from the capital city of budapest. and like you just saw lavishing praise on the country's prime minister, a man named viktor orban. orban has been in power for over a decade. he has positioned himself as a right-wing populous. he loves family is not banks. a man of the people. railing against those liberal elites and the media and the, greedy bankers. he's bragged about building a court illiberal state. widely seen as a well expiring dictator and a strong. it's rhetoric that sounds all too familiar. but the thing is orban is not really a man of the people. hate to break it to you, over the last decade he has consulted in power, and guess what's welfare himself and his allies throughout his rule. check this out, in july a hungarian member of the european parliament treated these photos from the hungarian news site saying quote >> viktor orban has been lying about the massive construction project claiming to be his father's agribusiness. with almost no assets on paper he's building a private mansion on a former state.

if you to lower in the making. >> orban's not publicizing this, there's very little publicly about it. another publication wrote late last, year among other things are huge underground garage and a 500 square feet residential building is being built. >> yes viktor orban whose entire brand is about right wing populism, for the working class, families not banks, building over a size style mansion. but that's a story overtime, the populist channel the people against the evil leads, also stuffing his own pocket. one of the oldest groups in the universe. a populists who uses populists for -- we are familiar here in the u.s.. take republican congresswoman lauren boebert, she owns a restaurant called shooters grill where employees are encouraged to carry firearms. she was just elected to congress in 2020 running on a anti covid restriction platform. now we have learned that covert paid rent and utilities for her bills with campaign funds. which is very much in violation of federal campaign finance

laws. the new finance shows that this is not the first time that lauren boebert has missed huge funds. in february but word paid herself more than $22,000 in mileage in reinforcement for her campaign account last year. to justifies those reimbursement boebert would have to drive 38,712 miles of all campaigning, despite having no publicly advertised campaign events in march april, july and only one in. me >> just for context the equatorial circumference of the earth is not quite 25,000 miles, so that's quite a congressional campaign. she was running. we have seen this behavior with, wildly frequently corrupt politicians, and misuse the resources of their supporters for their own personal gain. ruth a professor of history and author of strongmen, she is a calm of the daily denver, polls and published a piece titled

lauren boebert should resign or be expelled. they both join me now. let's start on the bubic story, you know once -- the mileage stuff that i've reported around the safe you see findings have enough to know that alarm bells going off in an fcc filing. but you do it once, now we've got twice, and it appears they're just recording this in their public disclosures that they're using campaign money this way. >> yes they do it quite a bit after those reports are due to, so it's pretty where they don't actually fall when they're supposed. two and then several months later they falls and kind of weird amended report, and it's not just the mileage-y, that's one and a half time listed of the, earth if you're trying to do the math of herd, $20,000. we're leo dunn it's the same amount of money that her restaurant owed for non employment around the same time. so she gets 20 game for her campaign, and then pays off the 20,000 dollar that was on a

restaurant. so it's really no surprise that all of a sudden she's using her campaign funds to pay her rent. now it's really important to remember -- >> so down i just wanna make sure that i understand this, this is all publicly available and establish, there was a lean and a debt that she owed the county ian silverii that she hasn't paid her taxes on employment insurance? >> yes about $90,000 in the county, and $20,000 for her campaign, and it's around the same time. >> that's really audacious. >> yes and this is the think donald trump committed crimes in broad daylight all the time, he has yet to be held accountable, he's her hero she probably figure she can do the same. thing and so far despite the fact there's investigations and complaints being filed, she's getting away with it. >> guess that is sort of the theme here ruth, and it's interesting to me that orban has been secretive about this because it's a bit of different. it's a little bit less flagrant, because there's a lot of stories that come out of hungry that are connected to orban, in the same way that people

connected to my barred or egypt, who used to find themselves with massively lucrative car dealerships. but this is always been a central part to the kind of authoritarian to step particularly when they are short of our champion the vote. >> totally and i added a chapter on corruption to are booked strong wind, because it's central to the whole offerton playbook, and one of the biggest games of populism for 100 years, is this idea that they were gonna drain the swamp, that there appear and individuals that are gonna clean up corruption. and during the swamp is actually mulls leading slogan. and i remember trump said i'm not going to take the salary. well hitler also said he's not taking a salary. and then he had the gustavo during the records that he never paid his tax. that so the essence of authoritarianism is not just getting away with, it but it's turning public office into a mechanism for private profit. because you don't recognize any

difference between public and personal. and you have no government ethics. and orban is extremely skilled at this. he's used all the tricks where he reels against globalist, and all of these people keep their money in offshore global finance. and ultimately the state becomes a predator. and just like in turkey, and russia, and hungry if you have a flourishing business, one of your bonds cronies will come and force you to sell your assets. and so this is really, and this happens in russia and turkey, and it's part of authoritarianism, and yet we fall for this charade of them as globalist trump eons of the people. >> yes there is also an aspect to the press here that i think it's crucial and important even, when i was coming up as a reporter in chicago, this story is the stuff that local

corruption reporting his. media and when there was power in the local press, that would hurt, he would be on the cover of the local paper and then they would have to be like why are you paying off your restaurant mean, campaign money. and i feel like a lot of lauren boebert followers, a lot of the folks that vote for her at, don't read the denver porous they don't trust if igneous. and it sort of plays the role of insulating from those very box standard corruption stores. >> i mean the irony of it all is of course that boebert refuses to talk to any local reporter in colorado, and it only goes on fake news stations like the late and in, and the other right-wing fever swamp fake news stations that are all over the country. she's never spoken to the grand junction daily said in which is a newspaper in a district, she doesn't talk to the denver post ever. and it's because she crafts her own narratives, and controls our own story. the other thing to know is that her restaurant lost $143,000

and 2019, and $226 in 2020. this is not like a successful business that she forgot to pay unemployment insurance on, or she forgot to pay her rent once in a while. this is the entire problem, is that she's a field business person, and she doing her campaign funds to pay for it over. it's a house of cards, and it's something the whole thing's gonna fall down. >> yes that's why power is so attractive ruth, right? because it's a way to keep the house of cards up. >> yes and we just lived through this, i think we should talk about this every single day that through 2017, and 2020, trump spent one third of his time in office visiting trump properties, the thing is, they're not interesting in governing, they're interesting in generating profit for themselves, and so, boebert is a symptom of this kind of, what

we've lived through and we have been fully reckoned with, or sort of breakdown of government ethics. >> ian silverii, and ruth thank you very much. >> -- as gop picks that fight pretty straightforward except one of those articles you really need to read all the way to the, and because i had the most amazing closing phone in the final paragraph from the sitting senator, i'm gonna quote him here, we always do this effing dance, i don't know if people are going to put their same mine on and do what needs to be, done or shut it down, this is just a ridiculous exercise i can't even compare to anything i do on the farm, that's the stupid. don't go anywhere i talk to that senator who summarizing so seeing distinctly, right after this.

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country know one thing, that if the federal government is unable to control its appetite,

if we are unable to slow the growth and federal funding, it's going to eat us alive. >> now let me just be clear her a debt limit increase without any reforms to lower our deficit just isn't going to cut. it >> the bill that speaker pelosi is bringing through this week will not become law, they're going to have to go back to the drawing board there, might have to go to reconciliation to address the detailing. >> never notice every time republicans threaten to raise the that's a link, there's a democrat in the white house, just so you know the democrat is not -- it's not new spending it's basically saying we will pay the debts we already incurred, we are going to pay our bills. and it's a thing that republicans remember lying about when they are not empower, that simple, as janitor told politico. we always do this i think dance i don't know if people are going to put their sane minds on and do it needs to be done or shut it down, this is just a ridiculous exercise i can't even compare anything i do on the farm, that's the stupid.

joining us now is john tester democrat in montana. a lot of people -- it seem so true, truly isn't in a ridiculous institution on people's minds. when you go out and pay for dinner on a credit card that's when you're making the decision to buy the meal. but you can't go home in two weeks later say, i'm just not gonna pay the credit card bill, or bad fit will into. >> you're exactly right and that's a great correlation, this is the money has already been spent, now we have to pay the bill. and that's with the debt limit isabelle. neither party is in this, and when it comes adding to the debt and that's about $29 million arena. i was concerned as anybody with the dead but for a matter of fact, just last year we passed the cares act. because the economy was tanking because of covid. we did a couple of other extraordinary measures to take

care of the coronavirus, the pandemic. and spend that money. and now when it comes to paying the bills, and by the way we did that and the republican house, in the republican chair and [inaudible] [inaudible] no we're not gonna do, that and it's great for messaging but in reality this will impact the families across this country incredibly need. it will cause unemployment to spike up and potentially 90%, some were predicting. it will cause in frustrates not only for the federal government, on a 29 base. but for credit card debt, for all the dead, for mortgages on homes. let me put it this way to your viewers, if you have a mortgage on your home like most of it, do and you don't pay, you got a problem. you pointed out the credit card, you gotta have dinner, you get that bill at the end of the month, then you decide not to

pay, you've got big problems. this chris is going to do bad things the century, china has been trying to set themselves up as the leader in the world economically. this is like giving them the keys to the car. here go china, take it and run. we're going to do something stupid. >> i have to explain this to folks and i just want to walk through it with you, because mitch mcconnell's position is, yes it should get raised. but just not by us right? . okay fine. it says you are or the majority. but i feel like i've lost my mind. correct me if i'm wrong. they're not just not voting for, they're actively filibustering it, so that you can't raise it by yourself. is that correct? >> that's correct, and we need 60 votes to pass the debt ceiling. and quite honestly mitch mcconnell has been here long enough, and he knows the rules as well as anybody, and better than most, that if we don't get the republican votes to do this

then the debt ceiling major fill. and the terms of the economy upside. now maybe that's what they want. it's certainly not what i want. and it's certainly not with the people in here one. >> what's the endgame here? it's a little unclear to me. here are the two train cars that are set towards each other right? the debt ceiling of the filibuster basically. unless i'm misunderstanding this, you could raise the debt ceiling, you've got 50 votes teresa detailing tomorrow, i think every democrats gonna raise the debt ceiling. >> i would hope so, they would do the responsible thing, that's correct. >> you got the filibuster seat, it seems like one has got to give, one of my missing? >> no i think your spot on. i think that if you gotta have 60, votes maybe mitch mcconnell is advocating for the filibuster. i don't. the truth is that we've got a job here that the american

puddle are here for the. and we work for them. and i think part of our job is to pay for the. bills and if we don't pay for the bills and bad things. happen just like they do in our household. >> you could pick it up, just tell them i somehow. biden was on capitol hill yesterday, or it least in the white house meeting with trump capitol hill, and the readout was that his productive meetings -- i said this yesterday and i think people don't appreciate this, i think there's 271, or 270 to go in the capitol house between them and, senate and you need 269 to agree. and if you've ever been on any family vacation with nine people to try and pick the same activity, it's impossible. so the task here really is a difficult one. what is your sense of where things are at? >> there's a lot more negotiation the have to be done, we have to make sure that

everybody is set the table, not just three or four 5:10 people. that everybody is at the, table that they share their opinions are heard, i think everybody has to be willing to compromise. and i think everybody has to be well to meet at a reasonable place to do something meaningful for this country. and do the right thing. when i go home, and we passed the bipartisan bill that's a good piece of legislation, i could talk about it for the next hour. but the fact is that some things did not address, it did not address things like housing, it addressed climate issues but we need even more. and quite frankly, that doesn't mean we have to stem through in a house trillion dollars, but it means that we have to do something meaningful and we have to spend that money right. >> do you, who are the people that you talk to? why the people that you're closest student in the democratic caucus? >> i tried to talk to

everybody. >> that's a very politician answer. >> it depends on how i eat lunch with, today was booker, it was bennett, i also talked to jeanne shaheen, visit with maggie hanson. >> here's why i'm asking this. i have a sense of what the groups internal in the house are. and i have some sense of the ten progressive senators who said look we want both bills to pass, and then you have folks like mention into them who are in their own category, and i'm just sort of wondering where the other folks in that caucus are. >> well i think that you pointed, out you put a family together and put them on the road you have a hard decision to make. lunch and it's the same thing in a caucus. i think that if we put everybody in the room and their opinions are expected, the reaction to compromise and negotiate, we can come up to put the deal that does the good work for this. nation and i think that's really the bottom line.

putting a lot of pressure on schumer, there's a lot of pressure on the. white house so they're working hard, and i would tell you that i think that everybody will come to the table, both from the moderate side so to speak, and the progressive side. and i think we're going to end up [inaudible] >> this is why everyone says, people are saying that there is going to be a bill, there is going to be something passed in the united states senate, and you're seeing that too? >> absolutely correct but people want to do the right thing, people are good people, there's some different opinions on with the right thing, is you fix those things by communication. just like you do in your marriage, you do it in [inaudible] >> it be really well to be married to 270 people. i don't think any amount of communication would necessarily iron things out. their >> senator john tester, thank you for dodging on my thought experiences tonight, thank >> you or gentlemen on this caller, thank you so. much >> right now democrats are trying to come to a difficult

full policy consensus as i said on president joe biden's agenda to discuss with max rose, democratic news and elected in the house and the 2018 midterms, and faiz shakir senator to sandy bernie sanders, he went his 2020 -- it's great to have you max >> let me start with you, so you've got a lot of moving parts right now that are very complicated, i want to put the debt ceiling on the government shutdown aside, because i think there's actual democratic humanity on that, we need to government funded and parent that. my question to you is, how do you read the dynamics in the democratic caucus in the house? because my reading is, frontline members are not the ones who are saying like slow down down through, this they seem actually very invested in most of the agenda. >> that's not what's happening here, and this one so scary it be laughable. everybody agrees, but the truth of the matter is that they're forgetting about certain basic

commandments. one, don't play defense for big pharma. to, remember the promises you made to the american people, remember we just passed in 2018 literally some of them were arguing we should do what they voted yes for, previously. three the american people do not care about process, they don't care if you passed infrastructure this, month or next month. they just want to see you get it done. and lastly, but most importantly, this is about delivering in big bold dynamic ways that people will feel with their pocketbooks >> they're going to get over this but they have to stop with the circling fires god right away >> it's funny that you have big firemen because i remember looking at your ads in 20 teen, against an income mid republican. and you did a lot on taking on big former over oxycontin, and opiates. that was a really. you're running in a district that was a trump district, trump had won the district.

that was an issue that you felt both passion about, and was politically advantageous to, you in a district that was a district [inaudible] . >> people cannot listen to the donors right now. they cannot listen to their donors, and they got to listen to the american people. the american people, that's what makes this also shocking. the american people are united about this. >> you're talking about the prescription drug benefit pacific. >> here's the thing about, that that's the thing that actually provides the revenue to do other things, so >> if you get rid of it the deficit gets bigger. it saves the government. money >> you save medicare hundreds of billions of dollars, which you then use to pay for universal child care, universal pre-k, expanding medicare, and combatting climate change. >> faiz shakir on the senate size, he's an interesting player in there he's next to mention probably represents the most conservative state, but is much less of a kind of caucus

contrary i think than mention is, and mention is his own sort of thing, but having worked in that senate and know bernie well, and work with bernie >> what is the approach here. because you need all 50 to agree on a number. and on what's actually in it. >> while the problem is chris, we've been having a fake negotiation. we've been into this for months and months, and at this point you would think that if you are on the other side of bernie, or whatever. you would have a proposal. and yet with the surprising thing from mention, or cinema, is that there is no proposal. you're negotiating with the shadow. and it's very hard to have a compromise when progressives are both advertising the north star where we need to go, and then offering the compromise and yet begging what is your alternative to this. what is it? and at this point they've been talking about this for. month they can offer a specific alternative. >> that is a really good point, because if anyone's been through a negotiation, it goes like. this there's an offer. there's a counter there is an

offer. there's a counter. >> and i've been in negotiation where it just drives you nuts. where is the counter, mentions counter is a strategic thought, or maybe we don't do anything at all but maybe he's doing this privately, but if manchin cinema is should stay at the. >> i thesis every night with my children, it's kind of debating that my children, here's what you eat for dinner, but i will mac and cheese, and they say no no no, i need you to work with me. you can't go to bed hungry. you have to give me something to work with. and i feel like we're dealing with kids. here you have to put something on the table. at least get to guess. this is a team sport. legislating at this juncture right now is a team sport. and i think senator sanders realizes it, he's making compromising, camilla is making compromises. where the people who are wanting in good faith want to say. >> here's a team thing about the teams, for the lesson that i think i've learned and now realizing this, you can't out run the wave, meaning you can't

distinguish yourselves so much as a member, frontline member, that you're going to survive if it's not a good election year, you're bound the democratic party, and its feet either way. yes but here's the thing. i've taken tough votes, this isn't hard. these are not tough votes. they're arguing over texas, i want to member of the democratic party to stand, and say that they want to venture capitalist to pay lower tax rate, and teachers cops, and firemen or anyone else in the working class. who's for that? i do not understand anymore but they are arguing about. it's time for them to put their heads. don't remember that the democrats, the party of the new deal, the party of working people get this thing done. >> faiz shakir max rose, the rachel maddow show starts right now >> today started off as a

normal thursday we've had sort of a normal thursday show plan and then as we got closer and closer to showtime. it turned into leak christmas not as in potatoes and leeks. then it turned into subpoena christmas. so we threw out in its entirety everything we planned on doing tonight and started a whole new series of stories. i will tell you in advance there may be a little more hurly-burly than usual because so many of these stories are breaking at the last minute and developing as we're reporting them, but let's just get into it. forgive me any straying into the margins, any veering out of the lanes a little bit. let me tell you what we've been working on. first we're going to start with arizona.